annie

INTRODUCTION BY INARA GEORGE
Inara George: Hello. (Miscellaneous voices from the audience saying hello/hi). Thank you for being patient; we were trying to hold the doors for traffic. So if you were a victim of traffic then ah, we were waiting for you. So, welcome to Topanga Canyon, the Theatricum Botanicum and the first night of our songwriter series These Friday Nights.

(Audience applause)

I grew up on this stage, I fell in love with William Shakespeare right here in this theater performing inmy first role as the Changeling Child in A Midsummer Night’s Dream at the age of four. (Scattered whoos from audience) So you might say I know my way around this place. Even so, I have never assumed this role as producer. So um…this place makes people do very special things…for the love of it. As a lover of the theater, I entreat you to come to some of our other shows. We have um this series which the next Friday is a sold out show with Jackson Browne. Sorry you can’t come but it’s exciting that it’s sold out. (Audience laughs). Um…Michelle Shocked on August 27th and to finish on September 3rd, Los Angeles based artists including me—my name is Inara George—uh, John Gold, James Colmes, Mike Andrews, Mellora Marshall, Ellen Geer…well of Will Geer Theatricum Botanicum…um, of the. (Audience laughs). And hopefully, hopefully all of the artists who are participating in this series will come and sing a song to pay tribute to the great Neil Young. So we’re hoping that you guys will come up for that one too. That’s on September 3rd. We also have a new poetry series. It takes place on our second stage, it’s called Song Speak Easy on Thursday nights and we’re having nights with Deena Metzger and Gale Wronsky…I believe that’s how you say her name. Um…and a bunch of emerging and eclectic poets and writers. So if you want to check that out. Also A Winter’s Tale, Under Milk Wood, Watch on the Rhine and a lot more, so please check it out. We have calendars, or check the website theatricum.com.

Um. Okay. My cards. Um…Also, I would like to thank Trader Joe’s which so kindly…(applause) I know…They gave us food for this night to give to the artists backstage which is really lovely and they’re great supporters of the community. Um…I’d also like to thank all the volunteers that came and helped us seat you and set everythign up. Our light board operator Josh (applause). Thank you. Robin Dinar, who’s doing the sound (applause). Yes, ah… Paul Benson who brought the sound and set it up (applause). Um…and co-producers Elizabeth George and Kim Zantee. (applause). Yes. Thank you for being patient with me. Also, I just wanted to stress that there’s no eating or drinking of sweet things in the theater. We have such a problem with bees and I know they’re not out now, but they’ll attack you later (Audience laughing). So, watch out. And also: no smoking in the theater. As you can see, we’re surrounded by dry foliage and it could be a huge problem. We have a place right down there for you to smoke. If you walk down the path there’s little places you can put out your cigarettes. So if you’d do that. Also, if you would turn off your cell phones and pagers if you haven’t thought of it already. Okay.

INARA INTRODUCES NIC HARCOURT
And finally…whoo. For as many plays as I’ve done on this stage, this is the most nerve wracking thing. Now to introduce our host for the evening—although he needs no introduction—for he has been called the most influential DJ in America. He brings us our music in the morning with KCRW Morning Becomes Eclectic and Sounds Eclectic on the weekend. He is a true lover of music, an avid supporter of artists and the father of twins. So may I introduce toy you the most influential—and in my estimation—the hardest working DJ in America. Nic Harcourt.
(Applause)

NIC AND BACKGROUND ON FRIDAY NIGHT SERIES
Thank you. Ahh…it’s all very civilized, isn’t it? I get the leather chair, which the artists aren’t very happy about I might add. Thank you Inara. Lovely to see you here. What a great place. You know, I’ve lived in Topanga for five years and I’m sad to say but I’ll admit it. This is the first time I’ve actually been here. I had a good reason to be here tonight. Um…when Inara approached me, I think um probably early on in the year and said that there was this idea to do some music up here this summer and to do some Friday nights with some songwriters and some singers, she asked me if I’d host the night. And um, as you can imagine I do get asked that quite a lot and um most of the time—as she said, I’m the father of twins and I try to be uh an equal parent as much as I can be—so I don’t get out that much to be honest with you. But it’s Topanga. I live here, I love this place. I was so happy to have the opportunity to come here, so thank you for asking me. Um, and she said just ask some friends, ask some friends who are songwriters to come and play. And the initial thought was: well, we could have you know songwriters coming out, playing a set of music you know, one at a time and it’d just be like a regular gig. And then I thought well maybe we could get songwriters to come out, sit down, take it in turns playing songs and maybe talk a little about songs and how they got into songwriting and how they uh progressed as songwriters; what the process is like for them. Um, everybody’s got a story you know and everybody who writes songs uh has a story about how their songs come about. So that’s sort of how this came about. It’s gonna be pretty loose.

NIC INTRODUCES THE ARTISTS
The first person I asked—cause they asked me if I would ask friends—was my girlfriend ABBA (ROLAND). And a lot of you who live up in the canyon know Abba. Um, it’s really difficult for me to support her in my job being on the radio because you can’t play your girlfriend’s music over and over again obviously. But this is a little different. This is a night where I was asked if I would have some friends here. So Abba is you know—as well as being my girlfriend and mom of my kids—is also a great songwriter. So she’s one of the people who’ll be coming out. Then I gave a call to TOM MCRAE, who’s a songwriter form England who I met for the first time around about four to five years ago when he had his first record out. He’s somebody whose music we’ve supported at KCRW on the air and uh he’s a truly uh unsung champion I think. He’s a guy whose music and songs I respect and his songwriting skills I respect. He’s been in town making an album so we called him and he said he would love to do it. And then at the same time, he’s friends with RACHAEL YAMAGATA who’s somebody I’ve actually not known that long, only about nine months or so. And Rachael said she would like to do it as well. So they’re our three songwriters. I’m going to ask you to welcome them. They’re going to come out…well come out right now. Please come out.
(Applause)

ARTISTS TAKE THE STAGE
This is Tom Mcrae. Abba Roland. And Rachael Yamagata.

NIC ON SUBSCRIBING
So has everybody subscribed by the way? (Audience laughing) That’s relentless, isn’t it? I’m telling you. You think it’s relentless on your end…I tell you. I’ll be taking money on the way out. (Audience laughing).

NIC ON NOTES AND FORMATTING
Um I took a couple of notes to star with. I mean I’ve interviewed uh actually I interviewed Abba way back when, before…when we first sort of met each other back in Woodstock. And it was one of the weirdest interviews I’ve ever done in my life. If you interview somebody that you’re in a relationship with, it can be kinda funny. Um she’s promised tonight to just sort of be…I don’t know, Abba. You’re just gonna like…just be normal, right?
Abba: Um yea, I’m going to be normal tonight.
Nic: (laughs) I interviewed Rachael um just recently. So I know a little bit about Rachael’s history. And Tom’s been on the show a few times. So we’re basically going to start by talking off about songwriting, about where these guys first heard music, perhaps the first song that they wrote and then we’re just going to see where this goes. So hopefully bear with us and hopefully this’ll be some fun tonight.

* * * * *

Q&A WITH TOM 1: MUSIC AWARENESS & MUSIC INFLUENCES
Nic: Seeing as Tom is sitting right next to me...
Tom: Damn!
Rachael: We planned it that way, you know.
Nic: Um, I’m going to ask you when you first became aware of music. I think your mom played guitar, is that right?
Tom: Well, actually, it’s a really sad story...but it goes beyond that and we’re in Topanga Canyon, we’re in hippie
country...so, I think it’s alright for me to say this...
Nic: Careful now.
Tom: ...and feel, feel not too ashamed. But actually, um, before I was born, my mum she used to play cello. And so she would have the cello pressed up against her. And and she would be playing this. And I never knew she played cello because obviously I wasn’t around to see it at that point. I was...you know...a couple of inches underneath the skin. And...
Nic: So she was playing cello while...
Tom: While she was pregnant.
Nic: While she was pregnant.
Tom: Yea and uh, and that was my first, that was the first thing that I think—if I’m really being honest and not too Topanga Canyon about it—was was was my first experience with music. Because later when I first started to write songs, it was um...my record company said, “Well what sort of bands do you want, what instruments do you want on this record?” And the first thing I said was, “Cello.” And I didn’t even know my mom played cello when she was pregnant with me because she sold it to buy a fridge freezer...we were that poor.
Nic:I feel a Monty Python sketch coming on. But, uh, the first music you heard. Was that a guitar?
Tom: Yea well, my parents were...they were fairly...bless them...they were fairly uptight. They were...they were very, very religious, very Christian. They were both...they were both vicars in the Church of England. And so there was no pop music in my house. The closest thing we came to pop music was Simon and Garfunkel and Burl Ives and folk singers like that. And that was my first experience and I completely fell in love with that stuff. From my earliest memories is putting on “Bridge Over Troubled Water” and you know, trying to do the Art Garfunkel part because, to this day I don’t have the most masculine voice. So that perhaps seemed appropriate for me.
Nic: Did you...did you start playing um Simon & Garfunkel songs? I mean what was the first stuff you started playing?
Tom: I tried, but damn, that Paul Simon he can play guitar. So you know, I got the Simon and Garfunkle songs in three chords. So if it wasn’t G, D, or C I couldn’t play that then...so...And that’s actually what spurred me to start writing my own songs: was my inability to play any one else’s to the point where people could recognize them. And I still get that to this day. People say, “Oh! You should cover this, you should cover that.” I go, “Ain’t gonna happen.” Maybe the Sex Pistols, I could just about do one of theirs. But that’s it.
Nic: Two chords.
Tom: Two chords....wait, wait, wait. There’s more than one? I’m screwed.
Nic: Do you remember the first song that you wrote? I mean...a lot of people start off...I’ve interviewed a lot of people over the years and sometimes they remember some kind of song they wrote about their cat or their best friend or something. Do you remember the first song you wrote and is it something that you can play or show us a bit of?
Tom: No. That’s a really good question.
Nic: Do you remember the second song you wrote?
Tom: I actually do remember the first song I wrote. It was, I think, I’m not alone in this, but when you’re at that age when you’re starting to play air guitar in front of the mirror and you’re starting to notice girls, every song is about trying to attract potentially the opposite sex. It may not be true for everyone but for me it was. And the first songs were always love songs “Why does she not look at me?” “She doesn’t notice me” “I love her, she doesn’t love me” (Rachel: I can relate to that) “Why doesn’t she look at me, Rachael?” And to this day, it’s pretty much the same. Nothing’s changed.
Nic: I don’t know if anybody here’s seen Tom playing, he’s been down at the Hotel Cafe quite a lot while he’s been in town.
(Cheers & applause)
Tom: Incidentially no girls there, ever.
Nic: Well, where I’m leading you with this, and I hope you’re going to follow me now, is to play one of your early songs. Maybe the first song that you feel comfortable...that you wrote, that you can dig back into your memory and play...something that you wrote early on, one of your early songs....don’t say no.
Tom: See, this is where I knew I should’ve called you before I did this. I shoud’ve said yeah, yeah, I’ll go back and figure out those songs. When you make your first record, I don’t know, maybe like a lot of people I spent...actually I spent the best part of ten years trying to get a record deal. And your first record is relatively easy because you have a whole bunch of songs. And one of the only songs that stayed with me from the time I was starting to write and really figure stuff out to the point where I was happy to present it to the world was a song called I Ain’t Scared of Lightning which ended up being the last song on my first album. And it was the demo that I’d done years before. And I tried to better the demo, I recorded it 15 times at least, and every time it got better and better. And I thought, I really sound like a singer, this sounds like a record. And everytime I put it against the demo, which sounded like me doing a terrible, fake American accent trying to be a country singer. You know it was really embarrassing, to this day I can’t really listen to it, but it was still the one that just captured me at that time, trying to write a song and trying to express something. I can play you that.
Nic: Yea, that’d be great.
Tom: The beautiful thing about this song, perhaps the only beautiful thing about this song, is it’s really short.
[I Ain't Scared of Lightning]

* * * * *

Q&A WITH RACHAEL 1: MUSIC AWARENESS & INFLUENCES
Nic: So Rachael, um, you’re not going to give me as hard a time as Tom I hope.
Rachael: Hopefully.
Nic: Rachael just put out a record, um…this month? Did it come out this month?
Rachael: June…June. What are we in now? August
Nic: I think we’re in August. So it came out about six weeks ago, I think.
Rachael: Sounds good.
Nic: It’s a beautiful record called Happenstance. The first music that I heard of Rachael’s was probably at the end of last year, when it was an EP that came out.
Rachael: Um-hum.
Nic: And you were on our program, I don’t know, three four months ago, something like that. I remember when we talked at that time we talked a little bit about your background and the fact that you…you traveled a lot as a kid didn’t you? You sorta went backwards and forwards between DC and Manhattan…
Rachael: New York…sure.
Nic: A lot of music around in the households? What kinda stuff was around you growing up?
Rachael: Um, not not too much. My uh…my dad and my stepmother were big fans of the Beach Boys. So I’ve seen like a thousand concerts on the mall in DC of the Beach Boys. And we took this cross country trip from DC to LA and um we had two tapes in the car: the Muppets and the Beatles. So I know the Muppets pretty well and whatever tape of the Beatles it was. Um, my mom is a big Barbara Streisand fan, she’s kinda a…she believes…she (unintelligible)…Barbara Streisand. So, I know, that kinda thing. But um, it was really just a lot of things that were on the radio that I was listening to through them….That’s what I grew up around.
Nic: When did you know you wanted to play music? Did you sing first or did you want to play music first?
Rachael: Um, I played piano first I think…Well I played flute first, actually.
Nic: Oh that’s right you told me that, like a record kinda thing.
Rachael: I did, like a little…you know, silver…metal thing. But I kept passing out during rehearsals cause I couldn’t get the breath support. So I figured that sucks, so I quit that. So I picked up piano. And um, I had a year of piano in 7th grade and my piano teacher kept saying, “Stop moving around.” Cause I play (moving)…like this. She’s like, “Let it come out through your fingers.” And I’d be like, “I don’t know what you’re telling me.” So I quit that. And um…
Nic: Now what kinda stuff was this you were playing though?
Rachael: Just classical stuff, which is insane. Like the time signatures? No way.
Nic: How old were you?
Rachael: Humm…thirteen…
Nic: Okay.
Rachael: …maybe? No patience for that. So I quit that and then…but still kept playing piano. I always loved to sing so I’d just kinda make up little songs walking down the street and that kinda thing. But I never considered following it as a career writing songs. I’d just do it on the fly and forget them. But I always loved the piano, I always kinda found the piano whenever I was sad or had nothing to do or was feeling lonely…I’ve always played the piano.
Nic: And did you have a portable keyboard that you traveled around with or just have a piano at home?
Rachael: I did. My dad had a piano and my mom—they were divorced—my mom had this um, she bought me like this electric piano with like the worst sounding piano sound and you could you could put a little disk a little cartridge in and record your songs. And so I used that a lot.
Nic: Do you remember when you first started writing songs and actually thinking well maybe this is something that I could do.
Rachael: Um yea. It was when I got kicked out of acting class cause I thought I would be an actress. So…um. That was in college and um they kicked me out so I thought: what should I do now? Literally I found this band in Chicago and I saw them perform and was completely mesmerized by the energy on stage and the chemistry they had with the players and um…I just felt like I needed to be on stage with them doing something…And through that band I learned to write songs and that really captured me in a way that reading a script never had. And that was the point I felt like, maybe I could actually…I didn’t even consider it like maybe I could do it professionally, I just felt like I have to do this regardless of whether it works out or doesn’t work out.
Nic: Were you like Tom (McRae) in so much as by the time you got to make…
Rachael: I’m not like Tom in any way.
Tom: Thank God.
Rachael: Actually…
Nic: In so much as by the time you made your first recordings you had some songs that were older. Did you record anything on the album or on the EP that had been kicking around for awhile?
Rachael: I did, yes. I had a few.
Nic: I’m kinda guiding you somewhere…
Rachael: Oh, so you want me to play one that’s from the early days.
Nic: Yea if you could, yea.
Rachael: All right.
Nic: Is there something that you feel like you could play for us?
Rachael: I’ll try.
Nic: Okay.
Rachael: It’s a two-chord guitar song ‘cause I really don’t play guitar…that’s all I knew at the time. But it was one that I wrote really early on about love lost…which continues to be a theme in my life.
[Under My Skin]
Nic: How old were you when you wrote that? How old a song was that?
Rachael: How old do you think I am now?
Nic: Thank you. Oh you think I’m going to answer that?
Rachael: I was very young. I was just a child. A wee little girl churning butter and running through the fields. A light came down, write this song Rachael….I was young. Very young. I’m not sure, I can’t remember. Numbers escape me.
Nic: Is it an older song though? Is it something that’s been around for awhile?
Rachael: It’s an old song. It’s probably one of the first ones I ever wrote actually.
Tom: See he thinks you’re lying.
Rachael: You know what?
Tom: Just fess up.
Rachael: What’s your name?
[Nic, Tom & Rachael talking over one another…]
Nic: You know, I’m just trying to figure it out, I’m not sure…
Rachael: Who are you? Tim? You’re Tim right?
Tom: Tim McGay.
Rachael: Todd…We’re really good friends we can do this. Don’t feel uncomfortable. It’s alright.
Nic: They do actually share uh cello players on occasion.
Tom: We do, from time to time. We have the same musicians. She can afford them, I can’t.
Nic: Well it was a beautiful song, thanks for playing it.
Rachael: Thanks.

* * * * *

Q&A WITH ABBA 1: BACKGROUND & MUSIC
Nic: So Abba. I know um more about you than I obviously know about these guys. (Audience laughs) But but we’re not going to talk about that, right?
Abba: I’m being really quiet.
Nic: I know, I know. I wanna talk a little bit about your background, growing up in New York, growing up in the household you grew up in. Um your parents played a lot of music. A lot of protest music was around the house wasn’t it?
Abba: Um yea. I mean folk. I mean Beatles was the thing that I…You know & I guess some Beatles music was protest music. But yea…I don’t know if they were a red diaper and I’m a pink diaper person. But pink diaper people. Um we have diaper people now don’t we?
Nic: Yea we do now.
Abba: But anyway…but…they’re not…anyway. Um yea so yea. There was I mean there was you know…I think Woodie Guthrie got my dad’s first guitar for him.
Rachael: (giggling) Damn.
Abba: Yea so…so that was kind of a good history and you know. But um Joan Baez and Dylan who I didn’t appreciate till later cause he seemed like he was bitchin’ about women all the time. Um…
Tom: I totally appreciated that to be honest.
(Audience laughs)
Abba: So um yea. But uh, I was kinda…I would say Beatles was the strongest thing. I mean I just you know. I liked sound. I felt really comfortable with sound cause you couldn’t see it and it just you know. I related to it, so Beatles music really kinda resonated with me a lot. So…
Nic: When did you first start playing music? Did you, I mean…people sometimes start playing an instrument; people sometimes start singing. Which came first for you?
Abba: I don’t know. I was probably singing. But uh you know guitar I guess and then piano. Guitar when I was six or something and piano probably around then also. And then um…yea. I think I wrote, probably around seven when I wrote the first song on the piano. And my mother tells this tory that I wrote this song for the music class and did the notation or whatever and my music teacher—she had a really tight bun and these skeleton earrings and she was kinda scary and it’s sort of amazing I ended up doing music because she was such a bitch.
Tom: (whispering) A good one!
Abba: Yea right, go for the bitch thing. So um…but um. My mother was like infuriated with her cause I had written this song and you know she sent you know the song back to my you know whatever with me to my mom with like all the incorrect you know like (in false voice) “This note isn’t the proper note for her and it should be a half step.” and blah blah blah blah you know.
Nic: And you were seven?
Abba: Yea so um.
Nic: Amazing
Abba: Whatever. I do remember the song though.
Nic: Are you going to sing it to us or play a bit of it or…?
Abba: I um haven’t played it for a really long time. But it went something like…it’s not going to be…I was thinking oh I should play one that’s like my eighteenth song because I was still young but it was better. But um that was it went something like…well there were two songs. I don’t know which one was first. One was
[Cages Song]

I’m in cages, can’t get loose. I wanna be free, free and loose. Why can’t I be free? Why can’t I be away from slavery? I can’t leave and get away… So (Audience laughing and applauding)
Rachael: You wrote this at seven?
Abba: Yea, don’t ask me. I do believe in past life stuff. But um
Rachael: I still haven’t written a song…(unintelligible) That’s amazing.
Abba: But that was yea. I was like woah. I was a pained child but I was also very happy. But um and then there was this other song that went uh
[Zoo Song]

Oh my, it’s really hard to try, living in the zoo stepping in the poo, having carrots thrown at you. Popcorn in my nose, peanuts in my toes. I’m getting rather sick, looking like a broken toothpick. Oh my it’s really hard to try with saliva in your eye from all the boys and girls spitting at you…
(Audience laughing)
There was more to it but I don’t remember.
Nic: One presumes that your parents had taken you to the zoo and…
Abba: I became a vegetarian at five.
(Audience laughing)
Nic: What about what about an early song that you played with guitar when you first started playing with the guitar? Is there something that you can remember that you can play for us?
Abba: Oh God I wrote pathetic love songs for awhile.
Nic: Well everybody did by the sound of things.
Abba: I know.
Nic: Everybody does by the sound of things.
(Audience laughs)
Abba: Everybody does, I know. Um (strumming) I, this is…this is kind of later-ish. But it’s not a pathetic love song cause I don’t really know…Well it’s kinda pathetic.
[Walk Into A Tree Song]
Um but okay. I’ll do it. It’s short. I had a ruff ruff meow meow life. I’ve been a pussy cat a tiger and a dog’s wife. When I would walk and not look in front of me the bark felt hard in my forehead when I walked into a tree. The bark felt hard in my forehead when I walked into a tree. You can’t see the forest if you walk into a tree. You can’t see the forest if you walk into a tree. You can’t see the forest if you walk into a tree. But you can see the stars circle in your head. Wish upon me. Wish upon me until you do it again until you’re dead.
(Audience laughing and applauding)
Abba: And I’ve been a pop songwriter ever since.
Nic: As you can see it’s very entertaining in our house with two young babies.

* * * * *

Q&A WITH TOM 2: SONGWRITING AND COMPROMISES
Nic: So uh…let’s sort of move this along then. We started off talking about early songs, early influences. Uh…Tom, you started talking about…uh…making your first record. And that by the time you make your first record, you have a lot of songs…hopefully. You played us one of those earlier songs. A lot of people who have record deals talk about how record companies can start to influence the song writing. Um, and I’m wondering if that’s something that you’ve experienced; if it’s something that’s happened to you. How your songwriting has maybe had to evolve as somebody who is in the music business performing…and this is how you make your living. Do you…do you have to change? Do you have to adjust? Or do you just do your thing and hope they go along with it?
(Silence and scattered laughter)
Nic: This from a man who just finished a record.
Tom: You have to lie…is what you have to do. Um…
Abba: And bend over.
Tom: Yea. Take it like a man. Honestly? It’s funny that you should bring this up because the first record I made was hell on earth for me to make. It was…I was the first signing to an independent label, I was the first thing they were going to go with, they then licensed me to a major label. Without my knowledge they took a song of mine, they re-mixed it, they added backing vocals that I didn’t sing, they got other people in…and the head of my label came one day and just threw this cd down on the desk and said, “That’s your new single.” And I said, “No way. That’s not…you cannot do that. If you put that out I will not tour.” And I never ever heard that version of that song anywhere…until I was in LA. (Audience laughs) Driving to a session for KCRW. You tunned in, 89.9, and that re-mixed version was playing to me. And I went, fuck! Who gave you this? And I had to come…and I was, I was so heartbroken that whole session. I was going: it’s out there, it’s too late, it’s out there, the world knows you suck.
Nic: I know, you were pissed.
Tom: But…that…it’s a fine line. When…if you…if you wanna try and make any form of art with any one else’s money, you’ve already sold your soul. It doesn’t matter. You’ve already signed, you’ve done the deal. And at that point you’re fighting until you sell, you sell…ten million records. And at that point you have collateral, you turn around and you say I’m doing what I want to do. And up until that point you’re always fighting.
Nic: But there’s very few people who find…you know…find themselves in that position. There’s very few bands…I mean you can count them on…you know…one or two hands I would guess. You know, somebody like a Coldplay or a Radiohead to, you know, name some recent bands are probably in that position. But most people never get there, do they? So I guess the question as a songwriter is…you say you lie…but I mean how…do you compromise the songwriting? I mean do you have to deliver a single or do you just do what you do anyway? I mean, I think that’s what I asked before, so I don’t know if I’m repeating myself.
Tom: Okay, well, there’s a really boring answer which is: if you don’t do what you do, you’ll always regret it, so you have to always do what you want to do. Because at the end of the day it’s not your A&R guy, it’s not the chief executive officer, it’s not the president, it’s no one who has to go out up front of a crowd, or sit in a room full of journalists and defend what you do. They…they…they crunch the numbers. I have to get up everyday and if I don’t believe in something, I can’t do it. This is, this is…I’m someone they will write off as a tax loss…probably after my next album.
(Audience laughs)
Tom: So for me, all I have to do is, can I believe in this? Can I go out, can I find an audience? And at the moment, that’s that’s the
thing that you cling to. Is, is…I’ll take their money, I’ll try and do what they’re trying to do to me first. And then if I get dropped, you know, we’ll take it from there. But really, you can’t…I don’t…I don’t think anyone really thinks they compromise. I don’t think anyone goes, “Uh you know what? I think I’ll let this one slip.” Because at the end of the day, especially if you’re solo…if you’re a solo singer songwriter, you sit down in your living room just you and you put your album on. If you can’t believe in it you’ve got no one to turn to and go, “Is this good?” It’s not like you’re in a band. you can’t go, “Yea! We did our best.” If you don’t believe in every single move, you’re screwed.
Nic: I’m going to try to guide you to a song somehow, through this.
Tom: Please.
Nic: Uh, is there anything that you’ve recorded that is on any of those…let’s talk about the first two albums cause the third one I, you know, you just finished it, you haven’t even mixed it yet. Is there anything on those first two albums that you’ve made that you had to insist on, on putting on the record? Is there any song that you had to fight to get on the record?
Tom: (pauses) Yea…thirteen of them. It was…it was…yea…it was a little bit of a struggle. Um…
Nic: Well pick one.
Tom: Okay. I’ll play you the one, I’ll play you the one they made me re-mix.
Nic: Okay. This is the version that I should have played on the radio.
Tom: Trust me, you’ll know why you didn’t. This is called Hidden Camera Show.
[Hidden Camera Show]
Nic: I just want you to know that I broke that CD. You know the one with the mix song? Right after you were there I broke it. It’s gone, it’s never gonna see the light of day ever again.
Tom: Thank you.
Nic: Thanks for reminding me for ruining your day that day.
Tom: And many days since.
Nic: (laughing) We try, you know.

* * * * *

Q&A WITH RACHAEL 2: EVOLUTION OF SONGS IN THE STUDIO
Nic: I want to come back to Rachael then and talk a little about the recording process. You told me when I first met you that you’d written a hundred plus songs, I think, by the time you actually went into the studio?
Rachael: Two hundred.
Nic: Two hundred, well that’s more than a hundred. Two hundred songs by the time you went into the studio to record your first record, right? How did you decide what songs you’re gonna use? How do you synthesize that down to…I mean what is it on a record…twelve, fourteen songs?
Rachael: Um…fourteen I think.
Nic: Right.
Rachael: Um I just gave them…a bunch them out to different sections of people and whoever didn’t fall asleep…I knew that that was the right song to choose. Um it was really hard, actually cause you lose your objectivity about your material after a certain amount of songs and you have a connection to each one but you don’t know quite how they’re registering to someone who’s never heard them before. So it was very difficult. I kind of gave people who I trusted their opinion about and I just gave them a bunch of songs and just kind of seeing which ones seemed to resonate with people across the board. And there were a few that I knew that regardless of what anyone thought that I just wanted on the record. But it was hard it was pretty hard.
Nic: I think you told me when I first asked this question that you know, you knew that some of them weren’t going to make it anyway cause they were older songs and earlier songs and it was kind of like a process of…you know as a songwriter getting to the point where you felt comfortable with the material that you wanted to record. And I’m wondering once you did sit down in the studio, how do songs change when you go into the studio and you start adding a producer, you start adding other musicians.
Rachael: It’s really um…challenging actually. You fall in love with the first like demos that you do yourself on your 8-track or your 4-track or tape record or minidisc or something like that and you get attached to that in the moment freshness that you have when you first wrote a song. Um a lot of time goes in-between you know getting a recording deal and making a record and finding a producer and getting the tune together and actually going and recording it…And with that time and with those other influences, um, you lose some of the freshness of that song when you first wrote it. So it’s very um, it’s difficult to kind of reinvigorate that song. I think that was the biggest challenge that I had, was bringing new people into the picture and trying to energize something that maybe I’d fallen in love with in another form some other time. But on the other hand, it’s really…that’s the exciting part of it...Is that as soon as you give up your expectations about how it’s going to come out you can channel kind of what every one else is bringing to the table and your new mood and that kind of thing. I forgot the question, what did you ask me?
Nic: Uh…I forgot it as well.
Rachael: Kind of like…spacing out…
Nic: I was asking you how things could change once you bring other people in.
Rachael: Oh right, right.
Nic: Cause you sit down maybe with a song that you wrote on a piano or maybe on a guitar…
Rachael: Fresh perspectives, that’s pretty much the short answer. If you trust the person that you’re working with or the people that you’re working with you open up to kind of their perspective on the song whether it’s just a melody line or some tempo or something. Whatever it is you open up to it. And um, uh. And I think that’s how it changes. As long as the goal is to make it seem real and truthful and in the moment, you will succeed. If you try and recreate your demo or recreate the song that got you signed or whatever it is, you’ll get something very flat and stale.
Nic: Kind of like Tom was saying, how he wanted to like get that song back again and…
Rachael: Right.
Nic: …just the first time was the time.
Rachael: Well… (Trying to add more)…
Nic: Um…the great thing about the format that we’ve got tonight of course is that you’re just sitting here with you know acoustic guitars and a piano. And I’m wondering if you could pick a song for us perhaps that is on the album that you knew when you whittled all those songs down that this was one that actually had to be on the album. Is there something in particular that you can think of on the CD that you knew going into the studio this is definitely one that’s going to be on.
Rachael: Humm…that’s a good question
Nic: Or not.
Rachael: I’ll try. There’s one that actually no one quite believed in. One that I did an EP and the album and the producer of the EP had a really hard time even tracking it because he wasn’t uh…he didn’t have a vision for it per se. And even the record label wasn’t sure about that particular song. And for me it wasn’t necessarily one song that I lived and died for but it was something that I felt had a shot at kind of reaching the masses or what not. And it turned out to become the first single on this record, so I did have to fight for it. We have kind of a rock version on the record and since I have no rock band I will play the piano version.
Nic: Okay. Wonderful.
Rachael: Alright, let’s see. I’ve had too much wine so forgive me if I miss a few chords.
[Worn Me Down]

* * * * *

NIC’S STORY
You know when I was talking to Tom about the whole thing about you know dealing with uh record labels and uh you know asking for singles and all that kind of stuff, um last night I had the weirdest thing happen last night. Has anyone got one of these iSight cameras hooked up on their computer yet? Hav eyou got one of these things? It’s uh it’s like a little video camera that you can put up on your computer and basically you can connect with you know anybody else who has one. And I had the strangest experience last night of talking to Fran Heely from the band Travis in London who just happened to be online on the little buddy list. And he clicked through and said “hello” and I said “have you got one of these things?” and he said “yea.” And we had this very strange…it was kind of like being on 2001 you know where the guy calls home from outer space on the little video phone? It was so strange and I only tell you this story because I was asking him what he was doing right now with you know writing songs and all that kind of stuff. And he said, “I gotta write three singles.” Because that’s the kind of pressure that his band is under because you know they’re a band that’s achieved platinum status or whatever and that’s the kind of pressure that these guys are under. And it just intrigues me to hear Rachael talking about a song that she had to sort of fight to get on the record and that’s the one that ends up being the single. So…usually the artists knows best. In my experience anyway. Thanks for playing that.

* * * * *

Q&A WITH ABBA 2: RECORDING PROCESS, FIRST ALBUM, SONG SELECTION
Nic: Abba’s made a couple of records, she just actually finished making a record which took awhile. An independent record can take a little longer and having babies in the middle of it can slow the process down.
Abba: But quicker than the Blue Nile.
Nic: That’s true, that’s true, that’s true. The Blue Nile just released their fourth album in twenty-five years? Uh no compromises there. But you’ve uh made records at home um and I’m wondering as an artist without the record label behind you I mean…I’ve talked to a lot of people who are unsigned and uh there’s a whole different process of selecting songs and uh deciding what songs to put on a record. Tell us a little bit about that process for you. Maybe even talk about the first album you did a few years ago and how you picked the songs for that record. How you decided to record those songs. Cause independently you have to sort of grab chunks of time here and there and grab musicians and favors and friends.
Abba: Um yea. Well I had a bunch of songs that um like I had written in my teens and early 20s and I and I had the opportunity to record them with…I don’t even remember how I hooked up with those musicians honestly. But um brilliant musicians and well I was working in a recording studio in Woodstock um cleaning the toilets and serving the Suzanne Vega pizza and whatever. Not at the same time. And uh…though I wish I had been in a way. She’s…anyway…I like one of her albums. Um so I was there and I hooked up with some people and um you know I always had musicians that were really good musicians that were interested in playing with me cause I was such a bizarre player. I would reel in these like really cool sorta jazzy bizarro people. But um and I had these songs and you know, it sparked something in some great players and that was you know…And I was so you know it was an interesting experience doing that record because I was like you know. My issue as an artist has always been I used to do gigs—I’d do a gig and I’d get a wonderful response and I would leave my guitar at the club for a year and sit in my apartment. Um and ah I uh you know was so grateful these musicians wanted to work with me that I just sort of you know. It’s like thankyouthankyouthankyou and um. Kind of the wrong attitude to go into working situation. But um but it worked out you know. I made this record that I was fairly happy with and um and I don’t know. The songs just were the songs that were supposed to go on it. I guess they were you know the songs that I’d enjoyed playing the most and um you know. It’s interesting. I was hearing you guys talk about you know doing songs and they lose kinda some of their energy sometimes and I do feel like there’s a freshness when you’re fucking up and trying to figure it out. “That’s a weird chord, I think I’ll keep it!” And um but I’ve been thinking lately you know it’d be really good to go on tour with songs and then record an album. So you’re really you know, you work em and work em and work em and then you do all this other stuff. I mean that’s how I kinda feel about some of the songs.
Rachael: I like that idea. That’s a good idea.
Abba: Yea, you know…so. But I guess you know it’s the yin and yang of songwriting you know. The raw sort of dirty nasty and the really well sort of like my song is my friend you know. I really know this song really well now you know. I can play it with my eyes closed looking out of the back of my head. Um…which I do all the time. No. Um so yea. And then the record I just did I did a little album, a little sort of EP kind of thing. Um that ah I don’t know what song I’m going to play. I mean I guess I should play a song from somewhere, right? From outer space…um.
Tom: Wait now. She gets to choose?
Abba: I get…yea totally.
(Nic and Tom talking over one another)
Nic: Play…play…
Tom:How did that happen?
Abba: Well you know what?
Tom: I’m smelling something unfair right now. (Nic laughs)
Abba: Well you know what? I would say something but…but I’m not.
Nic: Good. Thank you.
Abba: You’re welcome honey.
Nic: Yea.
(Audience laughs)
Abba: I’m trying to bring the vulgarity down to a low roar.
Rachael:You’ll have to sleep with Nic in order to…
Nic: Well…I don’t know about that.
Tom: Not again. How do you think I got played on KCRW in the first place?
(Audience laughs)
Abba: I know. He’s just bent over and greased up every night fore these guys. Um, oops.
Nic: It’s the only way you can get airplay, I’m sorry. You know, people think I take cash. Um…(laughs)
Abba: You know what? This is Hollywood. You gotta like, you know. The more you ignore someone the more they pay attention to you. It’s the boyfriend-girlfriend syndrome. Ignore me? Ohohoh! Please come here! Oh we love you, we love that song. I don’t want to play it for you. Anyway…I’m not actually going to pick a song.
Nic: The good news is that you can curse here. Cause I always have to tell people they can’t curse in the station. But please. Swear away.
(Audience: ohh!)
Abba: I’m sorry. So anyway, do you want…
Nic: I think you should play a song from that first album.
Abba: From the first album? Oh wow. The one that I had to fight to get on? (chuckles). The good thing about doing an independent album is that you don’t have to fight.
Nic: You have to fight with yourself.
Abba: Fight with yourself which I…Okay. This is a good one. About…(strumming guitar) I don’t know.
[Song]

* * * * *

Q&A WITH TOM 3: IMPACT OF L.A. ON SONGWRITING
Nic: You just made another record Tom, you’ve been spending uh…you’ve been in LA for eight months you just told me.
Tom: Yea.
Nic: You’re ready to leave as well, you told me.
Tom: Absolutely.
Abba: Oh, come on.
Tom: No, I need weather.
Abba: What’s that?
Tom: I need, I need, I need to wake up and not see the sun and blue sky; have people smile at me on the street for no reason. I need, I need high rise cynicism right now.
Nic: I was going to say because, you know, a lot of your songs…I mean you’ve spoken to me in thepast and you’re very self uh depreciating in your in your um in your gigs when you talk about your songs; you’re always talking about how (mock sad voice) “I’m very happy.” Um…I mean, I mean what kind of impact has being in LA had on your songwriting?
Tom: Well obviously I’m in recovery right now…And I’m working on a screenplay (audience laughs). Which I hope to direct.
Abba: And star in.
Tom: Obviously. Actually I did come here, I did I did wanna see what impact somewhere with with eternal sunshine would have on me. And all I discovered was actually I stayed inside and pulled the curtain and lived that vampire life. I just…that’s it, fuck it. I‘m a nighttime guy…so. I love it but it’s time to leave people.
Nic: But…you know, it’s interesting because you know, people do have uh different responses to to weather, people do have different responses to towns; uh travelling can you know, make people feel differently about how they write. I mean, we’re joking…I think we’re joking when you say you just drew the curtains and didn’t go out. Um…has LA had any impact on your song writing? See I’m asking the question again. I don’t think you noticed that.
Tom: It’s kinda leading…Where are you going with this? Uh yea, yea well obviously it has. I think, I think…this is, this is my third record now and I’m…you…If you’re the sort of person that wants to write about the only thing you really have authority to write about–which is your life–then you need to keep finding out stuff, you need to experience stuff. And coming somewhere from…I grew up in the countryside in England in the middle of nowhere. Coming to LA was…totally twisted my head around.
Nic: A dream come true, surely.
Tom: Woah, absolutely, yes, in so many ways. And you see different things, literally…the things that just…the tiny little things that everyone who who’s lived here for awhile or…or grew up here would take for granted. The tiniest things you absorb and you think, well that’s fresh for me. And even if someone’s written a thousand songs about that before, I haven’t So it’s all about what you can take from the everyday and mold and make something new for you from. So it has an impact. I can’t tell you exactly what, but it’s definitely there.
Nic: Can you play us a new song? Do you feel like playing us one of your new songs?
Tom: No. Can we carry on talking?
Nic: You have to play two for that.
Tom: Um…I was joking about the, the drawing the curtains and not going out in daylight.
Nic: You probably weren’t actually.
Tom: No, I wasn’t. You can see me. I’m the guy in Starbucks, nine o’clock in the morning going, “Well…um, my name’s Tom. And uh…I’ve been sober for…fuck it, an hour.”
(Audience laughs)
Nic: You do have…I don’t know if you can see it out there. Tom actually does have a bit of a suntan, so…
Tom: I do but please, please, please don’t tell my record company. ‘Cause singer-songwriters should be miserable. They should stay inside. They shouldn’t see daylight. They shouldn’t be fed. As it is I’m looking too healthy. So can I play my song?
Nic: Yes, please do.
Tom: It’s called My Vampire Heart.
(Audience laughs)
Tom: It’s sad.
[My Vampire Heart]

* * * * *

Q&A WITH RACHAEL 3: SONGWRITING PROCESS
Nic: I’m wondering Rachael, um, we started talking a little bit about you growing up and moving around a lot, travelling a lot as a kid and that’s something that you’re reliving now with this record out. You’re sort of on the treadmill now, aren’t you?
Rachael: Literally.
Nic: Yea. I saw you…I was in Boulder for a conference last Friday night very quickly I had to be over there. And I saw you there in Boulder didn’t know you were going to be there and you were very briefly and you told me you’d just come back from Japan. This is what happens when a record comes out…hopefully.
Rachael: Right.
Nic: You get a record label that will give you the opportunity to go out and promote it. Um, there’s two questions that are gonna come out of this. I guess the first one is how do you deal with that travel and that treadmill that you’re on? Because it’s like you’ve got to be at this radio station tomorrow, you’ve got to be at this press corp. in the afternoon, you’ve got to do these interviews and then you’ve got to go and play music as well. So the first question is how do you deal with that aspect of being a musician and a songwriter and the second question that comes out of that is you know…(pauses) It’s okay. I’ll remember.
Tom: How many questions?
(Nic and Rachael laughing)
Rachael: I won’t, you take notes.
Tom: I’ll take notes. It’s okay
Rachael: You get the second one, I’ll get the first.
Nic: And the second question that comes out of that is actually do you write while you’re on the road. While you’re travelling. Come on it wasn’t that so bad.
Rachael: Second question first. Yes, absolutely. Always writing. For me writing is my kind of my outlet. For any songwriter I think it’s like you can’t not have an experience and not want to have the urge to write about it. It’s just in their blood, it’s like their way of communicating whether it’s to themselves or to the rest of the world. It’s their way of kind of living through an experience and getting it out. Um so absolutely, yea. I continue to write on the road, I have to. It’s like um…it’s just a um, kind of a therapeutic muscle that always has to be engaged or else you feel like something’s missing. If I don’t write something feels wrong. I don’t know what it is until a few days later and I pick up a guitar or piano and I’m like, “Okay. All right. Right. I got it. I haven’t been writing.” You just need it, it’s that kind of thing. And um…
Nic: Are you able to write in hotel rooms? I mean…
Rachael: Definitely. Yea. Yea, I wrote a lot the songs that that kind of got me started in hotel rooms. And um…ah…you just need a tape recorder and an instrument and not even sometimes. And um…ah…But yea, you write all the time. You watch other people, you hear conversations you think of ideas, you hear other music and you get inspiration all over the place. But I think I think writers always kind of feel the urge to write constantly.
Nic: Do you save stuff? Do you like write snippets down and then sort of collect that stuff back?
Rachael: Definitely. Yea I have things on napkins, I have things on paper, things on my arm, I have things kind of scribbled all over the place. And my problem is the discipline to actually go back and revisit them and make a song out of them. But yea your sources are kind of around you all the time and you steal lines from conversations that you hear. Tom and I play a game. We’ll hear somebody say the best line ever like the waiter will come up and say like, “Life is like candy box.” You know, they’ll say like the perfect thing and like you’ll just both sit there and the first person who writes it down is the one that gets the line. (Audience laughs) That’s the game. Um, but it’s all around. You just have to open your eyes and grab it. But yea. Definitely writing all the time.
Nic: So will you do that if you’re in a restaurant and you’ll hear somebody else’s conversation on the other side? You’ll hear a snippet…
Rachael: Absolutely. Pen out on the arm.
Nic: Do you do the same Tom?
Tom: You should hear her next album…
Rachael: He has a little book.
Tom: Can I have the check please?
(Audience laughing)
Rachael: He has a book…
Tom: Great Album.
Rachael: You know…And you’ll be the waiter at the restaurant…I’ll feature you on my cover.
Tom: You have heard my next album.
(Audience laughing)
Rachael: You’re so British. What happened to you? Where were you born?
Nic: He’s born there.
Rachael: I don’t understand you. You’re blond…it doesn’t make any sense to me. Anyways. (Whispering) You’re dark. You’re dark Tom. And the first question was…?
Nic: And the first question was how are you dealing with this you know…this…
Rachael: Oh I’m not. Absolutely not.
(Nic laughing)
Rachael: It’s like a little bit of a…it’s like a wave. You rise to the occasion when you have to perform and when you have to…You have a goal, you want to reach that goal and you do the steps necessary to reach that goal. And you pull everything together to make it worthwhile and you do your best. And then on the moments when nobody’s around you kind of crumble and uh let it all out. I think it’s just fluctuating for everybody. It’s such a—forgive my cursing—it’s a mindfuck. The whole process, everything is very up and down and you get the best and the worst each day at the same time. And the travelling and the good and the bad…it really it really all comes hand in and you just have to center yourself and kind of believe in what you’re doing and believe in your destiny…kind of a wave of the world and how your life works and believe that there’s a purpose for it and that you’re living up to your potential and what’s good and that gets you through. But it’s um…You never…I don’t think you ever get a handle on it. I don’t. I’m just swimming along trying not to be eaten by the sharks…
Nic: Well it’s interesting for those…for those people who don’t know, I mean, Rachael’s record is at a place right now where it’s…there’s a really good buzz on this record—I hate to use the lingo…
Rachael: I love the word buzz
Nic: But there is, there is. And um…
Rachael: It’s the buzz album. She’s the “it” girl. She’s the next big thing.
Nic: Well you’re you’re in that place where people…
Rachael: The new Norah Jones.
Nic: I haven’t heard that one. That would be sad if people said that.
Rachael: Get a gun.
Nic: I’m sorry people are saying that.
Rachael: I mean I love her, but c’mon.
Nic: Yea exactly. But um…but it’s true. You’re in that place where um, you know, you really are having to go out and work a lot and I’m sure there are times when it’s difficult. Ah, I’m sure there are times when you do go back to the hotel room and you’re like, “Oh my god what’s going on? I need I need a drink.” Or…
(Rachael and Nic laughing)
Nic: Or “I need to write a song.” I don’t know. Um, but could you play another song for us? If you could pick something from the album maybe, you could play something on piano or guitar? Whatever works for you.
Rachael: Just…just anything?
Nic: Yea anything. We’re sort of like letting it all go now. The structure is going out of the window here…not that there was any real structure. Except for Tom.
Rachael: An album song…
Tom: Yea for me I had…I was totally prescribed. What I could play or couldn’t play. (Audience laughing) What was the first song you ever wrote? Or the song from your first album…or this? Or a song inspired by LA.
(Rachael and Tom talking over one another)
Rachael: I can choose whatever is on the album.
Tom: These fuckers, they get anything! I’m sensing a male-female divide right now.
Posted by Annie at September 5, 2004 08:49 PM

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